Annie and I are both in the Beautiful You Coaching Academy community and I had the pleasure of meeting and being interviewed by her when I was a keynote speaker at the Brisbane Inspiration Day in 2021.
The thoughtfulness of her questions as a follow up to my keynote blew me away and I knew that I wanted her to be a guest on the Emerge + Expand podcast when it launched. She has an incredible energy and I could listen to her talk for hours.
Not to mention that we both have a background in media and television, so I knew this episode was going to be a special one.
Join us as we chat all about:
- How Annie has found her place in the online coaching space by bringing her lived experience and work history to create her own unique spin on coaching and DEI.
- Creating something that you want to see in the world that doesn’t exist.
- What holds coaches back from making DEI an key focus in their business and how to overcome the fear of getting it wrong.
- As well as some really simple ways to get started learning more about diversity, equity, and inclusion without the overwhelm and why it’s costing you money in your business to avoid it.
- And so much more.
Watch to the episode here:
Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher
MORE ABOUT ANNIE:
Annie Gichuru is the founder of Uplifting Studios, a platform dedicated to supporting online business owners to build culturally & racially diverse, inclusive and equitable businesses.
She has become a leading Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) coach & consultant for online entrepreneurs, most notable of which is her partnership with The Beautiful You Coaching Academy, where she supports trainees and coaches.
CONNECT WITH ANNIE AND HER WORK:
Hi, Annie. Thank you so much for being here on the Do Business Differently interview series. Can you just start by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about the work that you do?
Katherine, thank you so much for having me. I am a diversity equity and inclusion coach and consultant for online business owners, such as coaches, creatives, and consultants, and I support them to build businesses that are racially equitable, so they can be intentionally inclusive when it comes to serving in, in particular people of color,
Such important work. And I know so many people who have done your programs and just had such an incredible experience with those. Before we dive a little bit more into the incredible work that you do and getting you to talk a little bit about your program and, and what that looks like in the world. Let’s take a little step back and I would love to know what brought you on this journey to where you are today, but having an online business and doing things yeah. The way that you are doing them, having the message and the, the mission that you’re sharing with the world.
Hmm. So I’m originally from Kenya and came to Australia about 22 years ago as an international student to study. And so the plan was always to go back home. The plan was never to stay this long and to even think of being a business owner was not even part of the dream. The dream was very much to come here, do a degree in mass communication, which is what it was called at the time and get into media. I was so into television, wanted to have my own talk show and be like a, of Oprah, but me. And so that, that was my passion. But then I came here Katherine and did not see any representation in terms of people who looked like me and sounded like me. I had a really wonderful work experience opportunity with one of our leading television broadcasting networks. But, and I loved it.
I absolutely loved it, but I couldn’t see anybody who looked like me or sounded like me. And back then, my Kenyan accent was really strong. And I just second guessed myself. Even when I got invited after the end of the program told, look, any, if you ever need anything or you’d like to come back, the chief of staff was like, we, we would love to have you. And I remember going home feeling so excited, but at the same time, terrified at the fact that there was nobody who looked or sounded like me. And so within a few weeks, I had really sort of found another course of action enrolled in a master’s degree to do human resource management and kind of get away from that being visible and putting myself out there in that way. So completely changed gears and got into a completely different industry.
And it wasn’t until many years later becoming a mother and just feeling that tag of wanting to go back to, you know, sharing stories and wanting to get on, on television. And so created a documentary series called true life stories, which did really well got picked up for television broadcast here in Australia, New Zealand and in Kenya. And it was there where the seeds began to be planted of wanting to not just tell good news stories, but wanting to tell stories of people of color migrants in particular, because our stories, the ones that were predominantly being told and continue to be told, are stories that are told from a lens of lack, a lens of you’re here, because you’ve come here with a very special need because there’s lack where you’re coming from there’s disease. There is poverty, there is just, and, and having that refugee status and whilst that exists, and that is a story for some, it is not the story for all.
There are those who have come here on their own pollution to study such as myself and were contributing and giving back to the Australian economy. And so how can we share those stories of rising? How can we share those stories where they’re not the norm that is told, but they so much more to us than that refugee status that is often synonymous with people of color. And also the, the struggle that is potentially the migrant African, you know, story or stigma or, you know, stereotype. And so it was then being introduced to life coaching and studying through the beautiful youth coaching academy and feeling the need to support our people, you know, migrant women of color. So stepped into that role. And it was whilst doing that, that I really saw the gap when it came to our coaching and personal development industry, not serving people of color, not having enough people who are feeling confident to approach coaches and not having coaches of color as well.
And obviously now having had that experience from HR perspective, having worked in corporate for over 15 years as a human resource specialist and dealing with diversity and inclusion, I really saw the, you know, that there was a skill that I could bring into our coaching and personal development industry when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, and also adding onto my lived experience, which I think is, is, is, is way more than any degree or any qualification or training could bring to the table. And just seeing, how can we begin to close that gap, where we are seeing people of color being served by, you know, the, the dominant group, which is white folks, how can we see them being served and being served well with integrity and, and spaces that are created that are not perpetuating any more harm, but are actually helping them to bring up the best of themselves. And so that’s how I stepped into what I’m currently doing now as a DEI coaching consultant.
I love how you explained that, you know, I think, and I see this, I’ve worked with a lot of new coaches, I’ve trained coaches. And I know when, and this is like just one very tiny part of what you’ve just said. There’s just so much there that I wanna dive into that I know when it’s like that decision to become a coach, start a business, you know, study something specific that they can be a tendency to forget everything that came before and just go, okay, this is what a life coach looks like. Yeah. So that’s what I need to become in order to fit in, in order to be successful in order to yeah. Be a part of that or identify in that way. And what I love about your story is how you brought all of the skills from, from everything that you’ve done.
And like you said, your lived experience and that has really formed the structure of the work that you do and informed the work that you do and the mission that you have. Yeah. It’s just, it’s very interesting to see how that has happened. And I absolutely agree with you. It is obviously the coaching industry, there is so much whiteness there so much privilege in our industry in terms of not even necessarily the DEI work, but definitely if that relates as well, because this series is called do business differently. What is it that you see that you maybe saw as you moved into this work and moved into the industry and started your own business that you knew from the start that you wanted to do differently from maybe the way that you had seen it be done before?
What a powerful question. And this is one of the responses that I get a lot from people who choose to work with me, take on my programs and then go on to become, you know, VIPs in my higher program. It is the fact that, and for me, this was more of feeling very, very, what’s the word I’m looking for? Very different from others in this space. And particularly looking at those who were doing this work in the us, because predominantly that’s where we have a lot of DEI, you know, educators, and also primarily within the corporate space. So having that corporate speak corporate feel and look, which was very much not me anymore, and me being more of a coach and also comparing myself with those educators who come from a very different lived experience. You know, Katherine theirs is one of, in particular for the us where they are exposed to a lot of overt racism.
If, if not on a daily BA basis constantly, we are seeing the headline news like right now, as at the point of recording this, you know, we’ve just experienced or heard about, you know, the mass killings in, in, in Buffalo, in the, you know, in New York and you know, and a lot of race related crime that continues to happen there. And so it’s very easy to look at how they’re teaching and how they’re educating in that way and, and want to replicate that. And so for me, the struggle when I first started was, but that’s not me. I am not coming at this work with a lot of urgency whilst yes, there is urgency to do it. My lived experience as a migrant woman of color, who’s called Australia home for 20 years and loves this country. My experience hasn’t, I have not lived in fear of, for my life.
I have not seen, you know, police officers and felt afraid of how I might be treated. And so it was giving myself permission to come into this work as I am and hold space with what I like to call gentleness, allowing people to come as they are messy permission to come to this work, not knowing it all permission to make mistakes, because we will, all educators included make mistakes. This is a space that we are all just trying to navigate and discover together. And so allowing people to bring their humanity. And because I often feel that in order for us to make progress. And I think that the late Ruth beta Ginsburg put it really, really well when she said, when you believe in something, do it in a way that will allow others to want to join you in this journey. And so I feel like if I am able to bring myself into this work and allow people to come as they are to call them in, rather than call them out, because they’re people who genuinely want to get into this work genuinely want to lock harms and be allies, but they feel so incredibly afraid of how they might be treated, how they might be called out and, and just in fear of offending.
And when you’re in a state of fear, you cannot learn when you’re in a state of fear and not sure how you might be received on the other side by either educators or the people within those containers. It’s a very difficult for you to make the decision to want to be part of that conversation, even though you want to. And so, for me, I’m doing this differently by allowing people to come as they are by, you know, honoring our Australian story and who we are, because ours is very different from the American story. And whilst we do have racism in a very covert sense, how can we still do the work? How can I hold space for those who are here? And we have those similarities in terms of the covertness, but educating them in, by taking baby steps and allowing them to just come as they are.
Wow. And I really appreciate what you are saying there as well around. And this was a question that I was wanting to ask you, because I know, especially in our space, in the coaching space, in personal development, in the online business world, there is a, you know, because there are a lot of, you know, white women probably in particular in the circles that we are traveling in, there is a conditioning that we’ve maybe grown up with with this and myself included. You know, there’s been a lot of unpack packing and unraveling of that over the years and, and a continual ongoing journey of this idea of, like you said, not wanting to get it wrong of being the good white person of, you know, really caring, like P worrying so much about that part. But I think can sometimes take away from the bigger picture, which is actually, how do we reduce the harm that we do to black, indigenous and other people of color, to other people who hold different marginalized identities?
How can we get past that feeling of fear? Like you mentioned, and, and the, yeah. The fear of being perceived as a certain way when we’re wanting to be the good white person or the good girl. Yeah. What would you say to someone exactly where you mentioned that a lot of people are where they really want to be side by side fighting the good fight, really making changes in their lives and their businesses in unpacking that covert racism that we all just kind of have, you know, it’s, I think once we accept that, that’s when we start to really learn. But for someone who’s sitting here listening to you and the amazing work that you do and thinking, yeah, that’s where I’m at right now. What would you say to those people?
Well, first I’d say join represented my program.
In, in all honesty though, Katherine, it is first starting by educating yourself. You know, you don’t know what you don’t know and what I encourage my students and my clients is find something that works for you. Books are not for everyone. There are people who can, who will buy books because they look and smell good and look good on their bookshelves. You can see. Yeah, I dunno if you can see mine behind my chest and it’s just an addiction of buying books, but never getting past the back page that talks about, you know, the highlights of the book or the table of content. So it’s finding something that really does work for you. For me personally, it is podcast. So finding podcasts that resonate with me that educate me and I can, you know, whack them on when I’m doing my morning walk, I can have them.
When, when I’m running errands, when I’m making dinner, ironing, doing all sorts of tasks, I can keep myself educated and part of the conversation because that’s something I do easily with other things in terms of my personal development and, you know, business, I love listening to business podcasts. So that’s something that’s easy and accessible to me that I’m not going out of my way, ordering something and waiting for it to arrive and never quite getting to it. And if you are somebody who, you know, or reading via your Kindle, you know, try and access different authors so that it might not be DEI work, but it could be an author who’s black, who’s brown, who’s indigenous, or a person of color who you might not normally pick to read or learn from. But that’s just one of your ways of diversifying and beginning to look at things from a very different lens and inclusive lens is what I like to call it.
And so there are different ways if youre, somebody who likes to, you know, Netflix, there is so much to watch on Netflix and you can look for specific things, documentaries that educate you within an hour, your eyes are open, your jaw will drop to the ground, but at the same time, you are so much better for it than before. And that’s just, that’s just doing it in the privacy of your space and your home. Yeah. And then what I encourage is take it a, a, a step, a next step where you can engage with a DEI educator. And the beauty of this is whatever questions are coming up for you that you cannot ask when you listen to a podcast or read a book or watch documentaries, or read whatever articles you have an educator, somebody who can help you unpack that. And that’s where, you know, this DEI work comes in handy from an education perspective and working with somebody like, like myself, but also finding somebody who you, you know, gravitate to.
There’s so many different, amazing teachers out there, and I’m not for everyone. There are people who go like, Ooh, she is just too soft and cuddly, and I need urgency. And I need a little bit more of a kick. And that’s not me. That’s not my style. That’s not my personality for me. It’s all hard. It’s all grace. It’s all taking it at a sustainable pace. And so find somebody who you resonate with, follow them, subscribe to their mailing list. Because again, that’s another way of getting free material where, because there’s so much of it, but you’re staying in that conversation. And then when you feel ready, I am ready to take that next step, find a program that will support you to do that. And one of the programs that I have is represented, which walks you step by step, not just from a business perspective, but from a personal perspective, because you cannot engage in business and not be doing the personal work. Like it it’s, it goes hand in hand. And in fact, if anything, you need to work on the personal first before you touch your business, because whatever you, however your business looks like it stems from the inside. It stems from the values that you have and the things that make up your business are very much yourself. And so it’s doing that personal work first.
Mm. I feel like your suggestions there for people who are really early in their journey, like that is just so easy. I think one of the, probably one of the biggest, so many, but a very big issue with some of the ways that I’m in Australia here, you know, in our Western white dominated cultures, is this idea of all or nothing. You know, the binaries of it has to be, I’ve gotta change everything and suddenly be, you know, doing all of these things and to completely change all of this conditioning that I’ve had for my whole life and suddenly be anti-racist, you know, just get it right every single time. And I love the idea of, okay, well, just what’s the simplest way you can start. I really resonate with this idea of like, how do you bring that inclusivity and that diversity into everything you are consuming?
Because I think that what we see a lot is the trauma of black and brown people, the trauma of the other people of color that, you know, and what their experience around the world. And there can, there’s almost like a fixation on that in, in white society in particular, how can we bring, how can we be exposed to stories and the lived experience of people from all different cultures and walks of life? I just think it opens our minds up to so much more than we could possibly have, you know, ever experienced just from our own lived
Dixie 100%, 100% when it comes to the books that you’re buying and the authors that you’re reading when it comes to the people that you’re transacting with. One of the exercises that I get, some of my students to do is have a look through your bank statements and see, where are you? Who are you transacting with? Where are you giving your money to what businesses are you supporting? What doors are you helping to keep open? And that in itself is such a jaw-dropping moment where people go like, I, I didn’t even know something as small as checking my accounts to see where I’m spending money really paints a picture that I didn’t even know existed, where I’m saying, yes, I’m supporting, oh, I wanna do this, but it’s not depicted by the activities of where I’m spending my time and money. And so it’s little things like those that absolutely do make a difference and ch and change our perspective on things, whether it’s a show, whether it’s comedy that we are watching, but it has a diverse cast.
Yeah. Anything that we are really engaging with and trying to have that lens that is not just one dominant character, one dominant group, but trying to see how can I have more diversity and, and being intentional about it because it’s not something that’s will happen naturally because we are surrounded by a very dominant culture. How do I break that mold? How can I begin to exercise that? And it all begins by taking baby steps that are deliberate, that are intentional, and really being able to, to, to have a look back and see, how am I doing today? How am I doing last week? Or however it is, how can I incorporate this into my day to day life? So it’s not something that is so hard to do, but it becomes something that is quite natural to.
Yeah, absolutely. I do wanna ask about it from a business perspective, seeing as this is a, a business focused podcast, in terms of someone say who’s going along in their business, and they’re starting to do these things that you’ve suggested, these amazing suggestions that you’ve made, a lot of people get overwhelmed with just how much is needed in their business. Really. I think the idea of a business versus the actuality of it are two very different things. And there’s so many different hats. We need to wear so many different things we’re investing in and putting our money towards. I know that the, at the heart of represented is so much about, you know, you actually, you know, it says on your website, I just wanna make sure that I get it correct from the get go that you are supporting online business owners to learn about the importance of representation.
So when someone is going, okay, I need to be investing in all these software and systems for my business. I’m getting maybe a business coach or I’m working, you know, doing these programs. There’s gonna be some people watching who know why D I is so, so, so important. Diversity equity and inclusion for anyone who this is a new term to, for someone who is going, how, where, where do I fit this in? Why am I go, you know, why should I invest in a program like represented or another program that, that really go goes into the anti-racism work in, you know, when I’m prioritizing, why is this so important and something that we all need to be making a priority in our businesses?
Absolutely. So as you begin to plan for your year, however, it is you plan from a, a business perspective. And a lot of times it’s putting our financial goals. What I often say is ensure that you have your DEI goals, as well as you’re having your financial goals, where you’re saying, okay, we are planning for this quarter, or we are planning for 20, 23, and this is how we would like it to look like. I’d like to bring in this many clients, this is how much I’d like to make alongside that have your de goals, because we do not have goals. You are not going to include them in there. Yeah. And so, as you plan for your business, ensure that you have DEI goals that go part and parcel with your business. And yes, I know they’re competing on priorities. Is it tech, is it a business coach?
Is it a program? One thing to remember is that, you know, research is now showing us that people who identify as black, brown, indigenous and people of color are now becoming the global majority. And so if they’re being identified as a global majority, that means that in order for your business to be sustainable in order for your business to be profitable, at some point, you will get to an area where you will need to serve people of color. You will need to have diverse clients so that your doors can remain open so that your business can remain relevant. And if you do not start prioritizing this work early, when that time comes, it will be such a scramble, trying to figure out how to do this and the urgency as well, which may potentially take away the, the, the humanity coming into this work as a human and potentially coming at it as trying to tick boxes.
And that’s when there is a more potential to cause harm. Yes, because you are hard pressed to get it right. You there’s so much urgency in terms of, we need to have this representation. And very much as we are seeing the events industry, where we are seeing people being called out for not having diverse panels, where it’s a very much, maybe white speakers and people are speaking and saying, hang on, you know, we need to see a lot more racial diversity. And I believe the same is going to happen in our industry where people are going to say, Hey, hang on. You are providing this service, but all your clients are white. Yeah. I mean, what’s the deal there. And in fact, what I’m beginning to see now is a lot of the people who I work with and support want to do business with people who have that kind of racial diversity.
There are others who will go, like I wanted to work with our coach, but I just didn’t feel a vibe there. I just did. She’s just supporting, you know, white women like me. I wanna be in spaces where these actual racial diversity and inclusion. That’s what I want to, those are the people who are like-hearted and I wanna lock arms with them. So you see, it’s not just in terms of attracting people of color, but it is also when it comes to serving people who are very much allies and want to do are doing this work and want to support other businesses who are like hearted.
I love that you said that because I know that, you know, there’s a lot of discomfort in these conversations that are happening online. I think we are so blessed and I’d love to know I have a bachelor of mass communications as well. That was what I studied at uni. So I love that we have that commonality. And, you know, even when, when I went to uni, which was about, oh, what was that? 15 years ago? Yeah. We didn’t have social media. We didn’t have this wave connecting with so many different voices, but also, you know, we see the, the good, the bad and the ugly of how that shows up online. But I think there’s a, there’s a beautiful element to it in that we just get that ability to it be exposed to, and, and expose others to our unique lived experiences and the different journeys and stories that we have.
But in terms of, it’s not just ticking a box. So, so, so important. And I absolutely agree one of the first, and this might be helpful to someone who’s just starting out. One of the first things that I did in setting a goal for how I was going to be, where I was gonna be spending my money and putting things towards and goals around DEI was absolutely not going to any events that only had white lineups not signing up for anything that don’t have that such an easy thing to do. I mean, really not that difficult at all. And when you start to see that you actually start to realize where you wanna be putting your energy and your money and who it is supporting and uplifting and who it’s not. And so I think the more you, you involve yourself in it as well, the more you then have the opportunity to really see where maybe a year or two ago you wouldn’t have even noticed.
Yeah. That you’re being very aware of who is in your space and who’s not in your space. And also who’s being uplifted by people and, and who’s not getting that opportunity to speak. The other thing I love that you said was, you know, I think as a white person, we can just, it’s so easy for us to, to step back and opt out and not necessarily be super mindful. And so as much as I never want these stories to be about like, well, you are missing out on income and money by not thinking about this. There really, that is a really real part of it. There are people out there who want to give, you know, they wanna sign up to work with you, and it is our responsibility to make sure we’re creating that safe or that space where they can feel held and supported without us causing us white people, causing those microaggressions.
And, and that lack of safety. We’ve seen so many examples of how that’s been badly done. So I guess in wrapping of all of that, I love that so much. Thank you. You so much for sharing. Can you tell us a little bit, I guess about, I mean, I, I find it really interesting and please for free, if you don’t wanna answer this question that I know that you are doing this work to see more women of color, people of color, black, indigenous brown people being shown, being seen, being uplifted in this way. But I imagine, and from what I’ve seen of your work, you work with a lot of white people. How does that work for you? You know, how do you set those boundaries for yourself? But, you know, I think for a lot of white people, we’re very grateful for people like yourself for doing this work. But at the end of the day, it really is about creating less harm for people of color. It’s not necessarily. And please tell me if I’m wrong. This is kind of my interpretation of it. This work isn’t for white people. I mean it is, but it’s actually to create a, a more just world for black, brown, indigenous and people of color. How does that work for you in your business, where you obviously work with and are around a lot of white people?
That, that is a good question, Katherine. And I I’d be happy to answer that in that I don’t believe this work is just for us, you know, people of color or even just for white people. I believe this work is for all of us, all of us, if we are going to get to a point where we see racial equity, true racial equity. And I don’t even know if that is a possibility, every single person, regardless of how they identify needs to step up to the table. This is not something that needs to be carried by one group or led by one group. I think everybody needs to take ownership of it in their own capacity and be part of this conversation and step up to the table. The other thing is that when it comes to doing this work, I feel this is where I can make the most difference.
Talking to people who own businesses, people who are in position, making positions, how can they begin to create the change that we need to see? Because it’s one thing to support people of color, which I continue to do with the affinity groups that I hold and lead and facilitate within different programs and different, you know, business owners that I support. But it’s another to go to the root of the issue. You see, this is not the, the, the inequity that we experienced from a racial perspective is not something that was caused by black people or people of color. Yes, this was caused by white folks. Yeah. And so they’re the ones who we need to be having this conversations with. We need to be educating because this is work, that when it comes to dismantling the systems of exclusion, we need to do it together.
This is not our one person job. And I know you get that, Katherine. And so I feel really comfortable doing this work and being surrounded, you know, in spaces where there’s a lot of white women, because the people who say yes to me are people who are willing to roll up their sleeves and do their work. These are not people who are coming to sit down and give you their white gaze. These are women who are prepared, they are convicted and want to do better. They wanna do more. And so I am very specific with the people I support. I have boundaries around me and it’s not just going into any space. Willynilly, it’s really going to very strategic, specific, intentional spaces that I myself have created. And calling in the kind of women who are saying, I see you, and I wanna do this work alongside you, because enough is enough.
It ends with me as far as the, the sphere of influence that I occupy, you know, whatever sphere of influence I belong to, it ends with me. And I, I wanna take that step with you, Annie. And so that’s where I, I saw the gap. And for me, really stepping up to the table, took the, the horrific public execution of George Floyd for me to witness that. And I just felt like I can’t be silent anymore. I’ve been silent for a long time. I have seen things go unsaid, but I feel like this is a way for me to make a space for people like me make space for my people, people of color, make space for migrants of color, so that they’re able to step into positions of leadership, into positions of, of influence and power. And I think more so, Katherine, for me, as a mom, it comes back to my kids.
You know, I want them to grow up in Australia where they can indeed see themselves represented, not just by way of knowing that we are multicultural, but that they can turn on the TV and see the representation from a racial perspective that exists when it comes to leadership and positions of, of influence that they can in themselves dream and be anything that they would like to be not been held back by stereotypical views of who people believe they ought to be because of the color of their skin. And so if I, as their mom can begin to, you know, create room and begin to have these conversations and occupy spaces where we are having this conversations of how can we do better? How can we create space, where we are of service to people of color as business owners, what can we do to attract them? What can we do to hold spaces where they feel safer to turn up as they are. And we are equipped to hold that space for them. If I can do that little work, then maybe their experience might be just a little bit different and a little bit better and less bumpy than the one I’ve had to go through.
Thank you so much, Annie, for being here for sharing the work that you are doing. And it’s just so wonderful to hear the deeper roots behind it and how you’ve brought your lived experience with you to be able to show up and do this work, not only for yourself and your kids and your community, but how that’s impacting the, the coaching space that, you know, really does need people like you in order to, to be learning and understanding and feeling that it’s just been absolutely wonderful to talk to you today about this work. Now you’ve mentioned represented a couple of times, but I would really love to give you this opportunity to talk a little bit, share a little bit about anyone who wants to know more, how they can connect with you, learn more about represented, and even if they just wanna follow along where the best place for them to find you is,
All right. So the best place to find me is on Instagram. That is where I share a lot of content and have a lot more engagement. And so my handle is uplifting studios TV. And if you’d like to find out more about represented, it is a 10 week course online course where a whole bunch of online business owners, such as coaches come together and they learn together over a 10 week journey where we break down, you know, introduction into DEI, getting down to the basics, talking about the harm that racism costs, you know, white folks, because a lot of times it looks like, oh, maybe this is just a cost to those who are oppressed by this. You, you know, this race issue, but no, there’s also a cost to white folks and just really peeling the layers back so that those who are going through the program can actually see the, the, the, the effects and the impacts and the things that they themselves may have perpetuated unknowingly and how they can do better.
We end with allyship and advocacy and how you can then take this work beyond just the 10 weeks that we’ve shared together, how you can take this into your home and into your business and do it in a sustainable manner where you are in and out of season part of this conversation. And not just when things are erupting as headlines that you feel like now you’re gonna, you know, contribute to the conversation. But no, you feel empowered to do it in your own way. It doesn’t have to be how somebody else is doing it, but you can as an introvert, cuz I know you’re an introvert, Katherine. The there’s a way that you can speak up. It doesn’t involve addressing a room of people in, in like conference style. That there’s a way you can speak up through the, the difference spheres of influence that you have and do it in a way that makes you feel good and empowered.
Thank you so much for being here. I have just absolutely love talking to you today, Annie, and please, anyone who’s interested in learning more about Annie and her work, please head over to Instagram. The links will all be below in the show notes as well. If you wanna go and check out more of the amazing work that Annie does, thanks for having me.